Comments on: Open Letter to Political Parties: A Bright Future - But Not for Women or the Law? http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/ neweurasia\\\'s Kyrgyzstan blog Thu, 4 Dec 2008 22:43:17 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Anna http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29625 Anna Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:35:24 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29625 Foreign-funded local-minded feminists respond that 'yes, there are lots of issues to be addressed, among them bride kidnapping, violence against women, few women in leadership positions, gender stereotypes for both women and men...' I do not feel that this will be 'wiped out' as easily with 'cultural revolution', in fact, Kyrgyzstan is getting way too Islamic with some weird interpretations of what it means to be Muslim. Foreign-funded local-minded feminists respond that ‘yes, there are lots of issues to be addressed, among them bride kidnapping, violence against women, few women in leadership positions, gender stereotypes for both women and men…’
I do not feel that this will be ‘wiped out’ as easily with ‘cultural revolution’, in fact, Kyrgyzstan is getting way too Islamic with some weird interpretations of what it means to be Muslim.

]]> By: Ataman Rakin http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29572 Ataman Rakin Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:27:55 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29572 Yes Ivar. I now that. (BTW there were no NGOs in China back then --that concept did not even existed-- but there definitely were a lot of societies funded by/connected with foreign Christian missionaries.) Sometimes, you better let societies deal with these (un-Islamic) harmful traditions over time themselves. Here in Kyr we speak about bride kidnapping. But there's also other things: bachayya in Afghanistan (i.e. the custom of some older, powerful men to have young boyfriends); social pressure in much of CA to hold lavish and financially crippling funerals and weddings; pressure to drink vodka in much of ex-Soviet Turkestan; etc. Meddling by foreign funded feminists, INGOs, human rights groups etc. is just going to put people's backs up and have a completely opposite effect. One can say, of course, "yes but the 1912 prohibition on foot binding worked in China." First, the 1912 (i.e. pre-Communist republican) edict ran into a lot of opposition among the population (partly since some saw it as st. pressured for by foreign Christian groups). Second, later, China had the steamroll of Maoism, the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward which indeed wiped out foot binding, but a lot of people and good things as well. I don't know if it is that, what one wants for Kyrgyzstan? ;) Yes Ivar. I now that.

(BTW there were no NGOs in China back then –that concept did not even existed– but there definitely were a lot of societies funded by/connected with foreign Christian missionaries.)

Sometimes, you better let societies deal with these (un-Islamic) harmful traditions over time themselves. Here in Kyr we speak about bride kidnapping. But there’s also other things: bachayya in Afghanistan (i.e. the custom of some older, powerful men to have young boyfriends); social pressure in much of CA to hold lavish and financially crippling funerals and weddings; pressure to drink vodka in much of ex-Soviet Turkestan; etc.

Meddling by foreign funded feminists, INGOs, human rights groups etc. is just going to put people’s backs up and have a completely opposite effect.

One can say, of course, “yes but the 1912 prohibition on foot binding worked in China.” First, the 1912 (i.e. pre-Communist republican) edict ran into a lot of opposition among the population (partly since some saw it as st. pressured for by foreign Christian groups). Second, later, China had the steamroll of Maoism, the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward which indeed wiped out foot binding, but a lot of people and good things as well. I don’t know if it is that, what one wants for Kyrgyzstan? ;)

]]> By: Ivar http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29514 Ivar Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:40:57 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29514 Atman, it was banned in China in 1912 - so a good while before there were any foreign-funded NGOs in China... Atman, it was banned in China in 1912 - so a good while before there were any foreign-funded NGOs in China…

]]> By: Ataman Rakin http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29513 Ataman Rakin Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:01:32 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29513 "Foot binding was an integral part of Chinese culture, and nobody was the worse for that ugly tradition’s disappearance." Aha, good point. Now, who took care of that? Were it foreign-funded- NGOs or the Chinese themselves? “Foot binding was an integral part of Chinese culture, and nobody was the worse for that ugly tradition’s disappearance.”

Aha, good point. Now, who took care of that? Were it foreign-funded- NGOs or the Chinese themselves?

]]> By: Andrew http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29500 Andrew Thu, 13 Dec 2007 01:07:28 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29500 You may be tired of international NGOs spouting paternalistic platitudes, but perhaps worse to become the subject of many jokes and laughs in places far away, filed in the category next to "strange edicts of the Taliban" and "peculiar horse fetishes of Turkmenbashi". Bottom line: bride kidnapping is creepy and wierd. Time to stop it. Period. Foot binding was an integral part of Chinese culture, and nobody was the worse for that ugly tradition's disappearance. You may be tired of international NGOs spouting paternalistic platitudes, but perhaps worse to become the subject of many jokes and laughs in places far away, filed in the category next to “strange edicts of the Taliban” and “peculiar horse fetishes of Turkmenbashi”.

Bottom line: bride kidnapping is creepy and wierd. Time to stop it. Period. Foot binding was an integral part of Chinese culture, and nobody was the worse for that ugly tradition’s disappearance.

]]> By: Russ Kleinbach http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29496 Russ Kleinbach Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:41:10 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29496 Good comments on Bride Kidnapping. In recent years a few cases have been going to the courts. Stats for 2006 can be found on the following page. http://faculty.philau.edu/KleinbachR/new_page_10.htm Recently published research in Central Asian Survey also shows that non-consensual kidnapping is also not a Kyrgyz tradition. http://faculty.philau.edu/KleinbachR/2007_study.htm Good comments on Bride Kidnapping.
In recent years a few cases have been going to the courts.
Stats for 2006 can be found on the following page.
http://faculty.philau.edu/KleinbachR/new_page_10.htm
Recently published research in Central Asian Survey also shows that non-consensual kidnapping is also not a Kyrgyz tradition.
http://faculty.philau.edu/KleinbachR/2007_study.htm

]]> By: Ataman Rakin http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29487 Ataman Rakin Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:39:31 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29487 "I am mostly counting on young people like Edil Baisalov, Then there will be changes…" Yeah right. Unless he becomes as pot-bellied and self-serving as all those other great democratic MPs once elected/in power.... :) lol “I am mostly counting on young people like Edil Baisalov, Then there will be changes…”

Yeah right. Unless he becomes as pot-bellied and self-serving as all those other great democratic MPs once elected/in power…. :) lol

]]> By: Anna http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29484 Anna Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:19:11 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29484 My friend stopped a kidnapping about two weeks ago. She might write about it on GenderStan. She had to listen to hours of talks by the kidnappers about 'traidition and Kyrgyz women living in forced marriages for centuries'. I don't think much will change for women unless there is a radical change in the parliament. I am mostly counting on young people like Edil Baisalov, eventually our blogger Mirsulzhan and AUCA women who will at some point run for parliament. Then there will be changes... My friend stopped a kidnapping about two weeks ago. She might write about it on GenderStan. She had to listen to hours of talks by the kidnappers about ‘traidition and Kyrgyz women living in forced marriages for centuries’. I don’t think much will change for women unless there is a radical change in the parliament. I am mostly counting on young people like Edil Baisalov, eventually our blogger Mirsulzhan and AUCA women who will at some point run for parliament. Then there will be changes…

]]> By: Ataman Rakin http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29465 Ataman Rakin Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:13:18 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/12/10/open-letter-to-the-political-parties-a-bright-future-for-criminals/#comment-29465 Thanks Ivar. One thing that has to be made clear is, that bride kidnapping is not an 'Islamic custom' as some (not Ivar but others) seem to think. "I am aware that many are sensitive to foreigners trying to meddle in Kyrgyz culture and traditions, as they certainly should be." Indeed. It seems to me that bride kidnapping has stirred quite some emotions among certain int'l organisations and is a popular and sensational subject for journalists ever since a British documentary maker first researched it in 1999. The film by Peter Lom, a Slovak journalist, also had quite of an impact among Western audiences: http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/kyrgyzstan/lom.html Yet this is one of the fields where well-intended international efforts to 'help poor women' might seriously backlash against those who think they want to help. Over the last couple of years, I noticed, while speaking to all kinds of 'ordinary' Kyrgyz (i.e. not the AUCA students), that many, men as well as women, are getting *really* weary of int'l orgs. and their local partners orgs. (the latter considered all corrupt and not credible) who 'want to destroy our culture and teach us how to live'. When you ask them for an example, one that often comes up is the fuss about bride kidnapping. Maybe many people do not like the practice. But they like the paternalistic meddling even less. Thanks Ivar. One thing that has to be made clear is, that bride kidnapping is not an ‘Islamic custom’ as some (not Ivar but others) seem to think.

“I am aware that many are sensitive to foreigners trying to meddle in Kyrgyz culture and traditions, as they certainly should be.”

Indeed. It seems to me that bride kidnapping has stirred quite some emotions among certain int’l organisations and is a popular and sensational subject for journalists ever since a British documentary maker first researched it in 1999. The film by Peter Lom, a Slovak journalist, also had quite of an impact among Western audiences: http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/kyrgyzstan/lom.html

Yet this is one of the fields where well-intended international efforts to ‘help poor women’ might seriously backlash against those who think they want to help. Over the last couple of years, I noticed, while speaking to all kinds of ‘ordinary’ Kyrgyz (i.e. not the AUCA students), that many, men as well as women, are getting *really* weary of int’l orgs. and their local partners orgs. (the latter considered all corrupt and not credible) who ‘want to destroy our culture and teach us how to live’. When you ask them for an example, one that often comes up is the fuss about bride kidnapping. Maybe many people do not like the practice. But they like the paternalistic meddling even less.

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