“Shut up and put up!”, or Kyrgyz-style tolerance
As regular readers may have noted, posts concerned with matters such as HIV/AIDs, bride kidnapping, polygamy and sexual minorities have often provoked strong views both in support of the authors’ opinions and against them.
For the vast majority of the time I’m of the opinion that debate - even when opposing views cannot be reconciled - is a positive thing. After all, debate allows people to hear different points of view from their own and make up their own mind about an issue. However, there are times when it seems like any attempt to enter into a rational discussion is at best futile and at worst counter-productive. The logical question, therefore, is why bother trying? The logical answer is that “all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”, or, put more prosaically, if you don’t say that you don’t approve of something, then you’re implicitly saying that it’s OK by you. Note that this doesn’t mean you’re arguing for the elimination of all other opinions, just that you don’t agree with at least some of them.
The event that’s sparked off this musing was being asked to translate a particularly nasty piece of writing by a journalist from the newpaper Belyi parakhod for the Bishkek-based LGBT organisation Labrys. This is certainly not the first time homophobic articles have appeared in the Kyrgyzstani media, but as an example of the pseudo-logic that homophobes use to civilise their prejudices it is a classic. The pretext for Sergei Kozhemyakin’s article, which went under the alarmist title of “Gay Slavs, Gay Kyrgyz: Attack of the Minorities”, was the press conference that Labrys held to mark the launch of their booklet about homosexuality in Kyrgyzstan.
The full translation of the article can be read over on Genderstan, which reports that there are moves afoot for human rights organisations to challenge the views expressed by the author. Just to give you a flavour of the sort of “tolerance” the journalist in question is proposing, though, here’s a couple of excerpts:
Sexual minorities do not tire of repeating that “homosexuality is not an illness”. Well, I refute that: it is an illness! And it’s quite an illness. I’ll stay silent about the physiological components involved (scientists are still arguing about it). But you will not convince me that homosexualism is not a social disease. This disaster has already defeated Western countries, and now it is aggressively attacking us as well. Public displays of their “inclinations”, thousands of gay clubs, mass gay parades… This is propaganda of the most real sort, which rains down on a person almost as soon as he starts out on life’s path. Imagine a teenager: maybe somewhere deep inside of him there is a “gay” kernel. But were he not surrounded by screaming adverts for homosexualism, then this kernel would gradually shrivel up and die. But no! This kernel is encouraged by his surroundings; it is made to grow. This is what’s dangerous.
Obviously. One would also think that knowing how violently (in the most literal sense) many people in Kyrgyzstan react to gays and lesbians would ensure the death of any “gay tendencies” amongst young Kyrgyzstanis, but experience shows us time and time again that it doesn’t. And in this case, Mr Kozhemyakin suggests that LGBT people should put up and shut up rather than trying to draw attention to themselves:
They [LGBT people] intend to enter into conflict with the overwhelming majority of society. Moreover, the conflict isn’t necessary and is pointless. Just sit quietly and “hang out” together! Why come crawling to us when we find it unpleasant?
If this was the “spirit of tolerance” in which the author claims he was brought up, then there really wasn’t much spirit to speak of. More important, however, is to note how the entire homophobic argument rests on the deliberate mispresumption that LGBT people are demanding “special” treatment and status in society (not that there’s anything new in this argument; the Russian colloquialism for gay, goluboi, arguably came about because of the assumption that homosexuality was only found among the nobility, who had blue, or golubaya, blood). What I’d like to know is when the right to walk down the street without getting physically attacked or to acknowledge your love for someone without getting raped became special treatment?!
As an individual, one’s sexuality is the most important thing in one’s life and simultaneously the most banal. And yet, when such a fundamental part of your persona is the pretext for you to be mistreated, it inevitably takes on political - and therefore public - significance: one is demanding to be treated as a human being, no more, no less. Unfortunately, history shows us that majorities are often unwilling to afford minorities the rights that they claim to be entitled to - think of the civil rights movement in the US, for example.
I would suggest, therefore, that when you are confronted by an article like this one, you try out a simply experiment: change the word “homosexuals” to the name of an ethnic, racial or religious group. How does the article look now? Is it still acceptable? The unprejudiced answer is, obviously, no: anyone who is truly tolerant understands that human rights are universal, and that tolerance is a mutual responsibility, not an automatic right.
on November 21st, 2007 at 2:54 pm
???? ??? ?????? ????????? ???? ????? ????? ? ????, ?? ? ??? ?? ??? ???????? ????????? ? ?????? ??? ?? ??? — ?.?. ? ????????????? ????? ???????? ???????? ??? ?? ???????, ?? ??? ??????????? ??????????…
? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????????????????? ??????????????? ? ??????????? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ???????? ?????. ?????? ???????????????.
on November 21st, 2007 at 3:27 pm
Could you possibly report your comment in English, which is the main language of this blog, please?
on November 21st, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Bien sur!
on November 21st, 2007 at 8:10 pm
Looks like Ataman is learning new methods of getting his message through, though they are incomprehensible…
on November 22nd, 2007 at 10:34 am
OK since the Russian doesn’t stick (once I get a grant from Novib –if they have not spent it all on LGBT promotion in the Kyrgyz colony that is– I will file a case with the Council fo Europe against NewEurasia for anti-Russian discrimination), here are the subtiles:
Xot on kommunist, but if Sergei Kozhemyakin was here next to me, I would kiss him on the forehead–not as a homosexual advance but in appreciation of having the balls to write what he wrote.
on November 22nd, 2007 at 2:24 pm
I noted that here are some friends demonstrating the knowledge “de français”… Bravo… I feel pity for those who became homosexual. I don’t understand them, and let me not do that. The fact is they are appearing in the streets without hiding their orientation. Do they have to? I don’t know, but their action might effect others, especially, little children and those who have problems in love relationships.
on November 22nd, 2007 at 2:40 pm
I feel pity for people who are closed-minded and threatened by difference. I do not understand how supposedly educated people can be so prejudiced. Do you have to show it? Your action might affect others and make them less tolerant.
On seeing a same-sex couple, little children will simply see two people who love and care for one another, which can only be positive. Unlike society, young children haven’t had time to develop the irrational prejudices of adults (don’t worry, they’re ruined soon enough). And those who are having relationship problems will carry on having relationship problems with or without LGBT people. People do not suddenly wake up and decide to “go gay” purely because they saw someone who is gay. Utterly false - albeit convenient - logic to justify prejudice and ignorance.
on November 22nd, 2007 at 4:23 pm
“I feel pity for people who are closed-minded and threatened by difference. I do not understand how supposedly educated people can be so prejudiced.”
Yeahyeahyeah. You are sooo open-minded, you have both moral superiority and intellectual enlightment for sale, haven’t you? Kruto.
OK, to come back to basics: homosexuality is counter-natural, but we know that it has always existed and will continue to exist in the margins of society/as a subculture among all civilisations. This being said, several things:
1) “The fact is they are appearing in the streets without hiding their orientation.” Brother Aibeque’s concern is a right one. This is a provocation and a humiliation. There’s no need to smear it out. To boast/show off about sex in public (and here I talk about straight AND gay) is bestiality. The charms/power of sexuality lays in the capability to be discreet about it. THAT is what I call CI-VI-LI-SA-TION.
2) What are we speaking about? Tyupin from Oasis once spoke about 35,000 in Kyr or 0.7% of the population. Kirei from Labrys speaks about 3 to 7% of Kyr’s population, then again about ca. 7,000 in Bishkek alone (which is 0.9% if you take the city’s pop. at 800,000). If we take an average of all four percentages we get at 2.9% though that is generously taking Kirei’s over-optimistic 7% upper margin into account. In other words, we talk about a marginal subculture. Who the heck do they think they are? Will they set the agenda?! Watch out. LGTBs love to play the role of innocent, helpless victims when it suits them. But believe me, I’ve seen how nasty and wicked they can be when push comes to shove, i.e. once they gain an ounce of power.
3) I’ve said it before and now again, this is not about ‘helping people’ or ‘open minds’. This as about a systematic dislocation of Kyrgyz society to subjugate it better (cf. how long would this last without external sponsorship?). This is part of a pernicious anti-Islamic assault. A country like Kyrgyzstan is a favorite testing ground because it is culturally and sociologically very uprooted and confused. I mean, at the end of the day, people in Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, … have Islam (OK now it’s suppressed but it will be victorius). But in Kyrgyzstan things are less clear. That‘s what they are taking advantage of.
4) “People do not suddenly wake up and decide to “go gay” purely because they saw someone who is gay.” Well, in fact, part of the LGB in Bishkek are as gay as the wheels of my motorcycle are. But they act as such either because they are so naive tot think that this is ‘the cool Western way’, because its part of being an ‘artist’ or st. or to be in the good books with certain Western expats.
on November 22nd, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Could you tell me exactly how one is supposed to hide one’s orientation when one is walking down the street by one’s self? Or are you actually arguing that no-one should look “gay” or shouldn’t go out if they don’t look like you think they should (and you do realise just how stupid, ignorant and bigoted that makes you seem, don’t you)?
As usual, those taking the high moral ground are just showing themselves to be utterly sex-obsessed to a far greater degree than the vast majority of society. Why should a small, misogynistic, medieval and paranoid group of moralising holier-than-thous set the agenda for a society? LGBT people are NOT seeking to take over, merely to be able to live their lives without fear of violence. Meanwhile the moralisers seem to think that they have the right to subject all of society to their values. Talk about hypocrisy… Similarly LGBT people - like religious people - can be as nasty and wicked as anyone else, but it is not their sexuality that causes this.
Ataman, please be careful with your polemic as you are very close to inciting homophobic hatred, which will be subject to moderation.
on November 22nd, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Oi mamochka kak ya boyusya!
lol
“those taking the high moral ground are just showing themselves”
Ow-ow-ow… YOU are the one taking the moral high ground.
“Ataman, please be careful with your polemic as you are very close to inciting homophobic hatred, which will be subject to moderation.”
Voilààà! All very liberal, until trapped by someone who does not slavishly toes the PC line. Do you realise how stupid YOU look now?
on November 22nd, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Please note that your post has not been moderated - and asking someone to respect basic principles such as not inciting hatred is indeed liberal; simply censoring someone would be the non-liberal thing to do.
As you are aware, I do not agree with your views and find many of them highly offensive (just as you don’t agree with my views). At the same time, I would defend your right to express them provided they do not promote hatred and violence. Your comments starting “Who the heck do they think they are?…” are polemic designed to arouse unfounded antipathy towards the group in question. Common respect and manners, not any desire to be PC, is what makes this unacceptable.
on November 22nd, 2007 at 5:44 pm
Amen.
“Who the heck do they think they are?…”
OK I’ll rephrase this: “Based on these statistical estimates by several stakeholders, couldn’t we suggest that their perception of the overall sociological relevance and impact of the self-group is incompatible with the actual sociological relevance and BELCH impact on society on the whole?”
on November 22nd, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Ataman, I love heated debates, and I respect others’ opinions. While I’m generally inclined to stick to the comment guidelines of our blog, I’m going to deviate just slightly on this occasion.
I am the owner of the neweurasia.net domain and in a way, you’re my guest over here and have to abide by my house rules, so I tell you the following: while you are entitled to your views, they are NOT WELCOME on neweurasia. Please restrict yourself to relevant and constructive comments or don’t post at all.
Thanks,
Ben
on November 22nd, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Oh, as a matter of fact I AM entitled to my views??
How generous! I am moved to tears.
As for constructive proposals, maybe we could put the LGBT to work in the coal mines at Kara Keche in Jumgal, under the personal spiritual guidance of Nurlan Motuev? Full employment, close to nature, fresh air, lots of exercise… And in the barracks after work they can have workshops on jazz dance and stuff…
on November 22nd, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Erm - did you read the previous comment? I repeat:
I am the owner of the neweurasia.net domain and you’re my guest over here and have to abide by my house rules! Your views are NOT WELCOME on neweurasia. Your latest comment is no exception. Please restrict yourself to relevant and constructive comments or don’t post at all.
Kapish?
on November 23rd, 2007 at 10:28 am
Tsk-tsk–ruhig mal. KapiTE. Ya zhe starshe.
on November 23rd, 2007 at 11:32 am
“And in the barracks after work they can have workshops on jazz dance and stuff…”
Ben seems not very happy so perhaps we could expand that to flower arrangement workshops as well.
on November 24th, 2007 at 6:47 am
Rakin, no need to do Christopher Hitchen’s work for him. He can really use the gigs.
Oh, and by the way, we get it, you can speak Russian. Molodets.
on November 27th, 2007 at 10:38 am
“He can really use the gigs.”
In that case, let his manager contact me to discuss the author rights.