Comments on: Is polygamy an islamic tradition? http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/ neweurasia\\\'s Kyrgyzstan blog Thu, 4 Dec 2008 20:57:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Aibeque http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-29270 Aibeque Fri, 23 Nov 2007 23:11:15 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-29270 According to the table Ataman depicts us, " the number is 3 times that of men" only for seniors :( at other ages number of males = number of women ??? According to the table Ataman depicts us, ” the number is 3 times that of men” only for seniors :(

at other ages number of males = number of women ???

]]> By: Naz http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-28962 Naz Thu, 25 Oct 2007 21:39:48 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-28962 I don' support polygamy. It' s awuful from the woman's point of view to feel that you are the second or third and have no equal right with other I don’ support polygamy. It’ s awuful from the woman’s point of view to feel that you are the second or third and have no equal right with other

]]> By: Ataman Rakin http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-24395 Ataman Rakin Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:41:57 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-24395 OK aunt Siv. I won't do it again, promised. ;) OK aunt Siv. I won’t do it again, promised. ;)

]]> By: CXW http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-23591 CXW Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:47:09 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-23591 <p>Ataman Rakin: your last comment was unhelpful and unnecessary. It is snide comments such as this, which contribute nothing, that deterr potential commentors from contributing to discussions. Lively debate is one thing and a plurality of views is positively encouraged, but disrespectful jibes are not welcome. </p> <p>Future comments of a similar nature will be subject to moderation.</p> Ataman Rakin: your last comment was unhelpful and unnecessary. It is snide comments such as this, which contribute nothing, that deterr potential commentors from contributing to discussions. Lively debate is one thing and a plurality of views is positively encouraged, but disrespectful jibes are not welcome.

Future comments of a similar nature will be subject to moderation.

]]> By: Ataman Rakin http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-23396 Ataman Rakin Sat, 21 Jul 2007 19:47:28 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-23396 Hmm there's not much of a feminist -- oopsssorry: gender -- solidarity wave, isn't there Anne? :) lol Hmm there’s not much of a feminist — oopsssorry: gender — solidarity wave, isn’t there Anne? :) lol

]]> By: Anna http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22551 Anna Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:11:09 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22551 Ataman Raqin, We obviously have very different perceptions of women's roles. And I am a woman myself. I do not believe in biological differences making people's destiny. I would appreciate more opinions coming from women themselves without men speaking on their behalf as this is usually done. Do female readers of Neweurasia feel that their 'core' wish is to have children? Is it natural for men to want children? How biological are humans really these days? How biological is the society as a mix of different SOCIAL units? What exactly is 'complementary' about men and women? What happens to women and men who cannot have children for some reason? Ataman Raqin,

We obviously have very different perceptions of women’s roles. And I am a woman myself. I do not believe in biological differences making people’s destiny. I would appreciate more opinions coming from women themselves without men speaking on their behalf as this is usually done. Do female readers of Neweurasia feel that their ‘core’ wish is to have children?
Is it natural for men to want children?
How biological are humans really these days? How biological is the society as a mix of different SOCIAL units?
What exactly is ‘complementary’ about men and women? What happens to women and men who cannot have children for some reason?

]]> By: Ataman Rakin http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22463 Ataman Rakin Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:10:10 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22463 "How do you feel about women in general?" I have no particular problem with them. Why should I? In fact I am married an have a kid with one so I know what I'm talking about. I have a lot of respect and admiration for women -- at least for those who *deserve* (!) respect. A woman's beauty is in her dignity. Likewise, I believe that liberal and bankrupt left-wing 'gender' concepts, for all their illusions of moral superiority, do not have the universal anwers on women's issues. It's nonsense to claim that men and women are equal. We're not. We're complementary. "Is their only role in life to bear and raise children?" No it's not their *only* role, Anna, but one of their natural key roles and many women agree with that. "What is selfish about deciding not to have children?" Look, at the end of the day, each women's natural core wish is to have children even among those who boldy pretend they do not because of their 'friidum'. I've observed that many times. Of course there can be reasons not to: lesbianism; obsessive materialism; certain family traumas; etc. Biologically, the main purpose of reproduction is to continue the specie and the family, which is society's basic entity. The deterioration of this entity is a major symptom of a civilisation's terminal decadence. “How do you feel about women in general?”

I have no particular problem with them. Why should I? In fact I am married an have a kid with one so I know what I’m talking about. I have a lot of respect and admiration for women — at least for those who *deserve* (!) respect. A woman’s beauty is in her dignity.

Likewise, I believe that liberal and bankrupt left-wing ‘gender’ concepts, for all their illusions of moral superiority, do not have the universal anwers on women’s issues.

It’s nonsense to claim that men and women are equal. We’re not. We’re complementary.

“Is their only role in life to bear and raise children?”

No it’s not their *only* role, Anna, but one of their natural key roles and many women agree with that.

“What is selfish about deciding not to have children?”

Look, at the end of the day, each women’s natural core wish is to have children even among those who boldy pretend they do not because of their ‘friidum’. I’ve observed that many times. Of course there can be reasons not to: lesbianism; obsessive materialism; certain family traumas; etc.

Biologically, the main purpose of reproduction is to continue the specie and the family, which is society’s basic entity. The deterioration of this entity is a major symptom of a civilisation’s terminal decadence.

]]> By: Anna http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22433 Anna Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:29:41 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22433 Ataman Raqin, Interesting value judgements about Western socieities. How do you feel about women in general? Is their only role in life to bear and raise children? What is selfish about deciding not to have children? As for 'pc promotion of homosexuality', come on! Take any media, any social institution, what kind of lifestyle are they promoting? Mostly heterosexual and mostly for white men (also true in Kyrgyzstan unfortunately). Ataman Raqin,
Interesting value judgements about Western socieities. How do you feel about women in general? Is their only role in life to bear and raise children? What is selfish about deciding not to have children?

As for ‘pc promotion of homosexuality’, come on! Take any media, any social institution, what kind of lifestyle are they promoting? Mostly heterosexual and mostly for white men (also true in Kyrgyzstan unfortunately).

]]> By: Ataman Rakin http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22426 Ataman Rakin Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:55:20 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22426 "Human lives are not about reproduction these days" Well, maybe not in terminally decadent societies like Europe and parts of the US where post-feminist selfishness and the pc promotion of homosexuality have become a tiranny in its own right. "The number of women is 3 times that of men any proposals???" I assume that this is related to Kyr, but where do you get than number from Aibeque? Even though the official/internatioan data and population charts (eg. http://www.tkb.org/images/pyramids/originals/kg-pp.png ) might not fully reflect reality as well, I think this '1 for 3' rate is pure nonsense. I mean, such imbalances occured in history in areas with a disproportionally high mortality rate among men due to war (eg. parts of Poland and the Western USSR after WWII). But it's not that case in Kyr even if more men are absent due to labour migration or die early due to the secular virtue of alcoholism. It's not the first time that I hear about the '1 for 3' thing. It's a myth that started to lead its own life and is also pulled out, amongst others by persons in mailorder bride and traficking schemes to justify their 'busineses'. “Human lives are not about reproduction these days”

Well, maybe not in terminally decadent societies like Europe and parts of the US where post-feminist selfishness and the pc promotion of homosexuality have become a tiranny in its own right.

“The number of women is 3 times that of men any proposals???”

I assume that this is related to Kyr, but where do you get than number from Aibeque?

Even though the official/internatioan data and population charts (eg. http://www.tkb.org/images/pyramids/originals/kg-pp.png ) might not fully reflect reality as well, I think this ‘1 for 3′ rate is pure nonsense.

I mean, such imbalances occured in history in areas with a disproportionally high mortality rate among men due to war (eg. parts of Poland and the Western USSR after WWII). But it’s not that case in Kyr even if more men are absent due to labour migration or die early due to the secular virtue of alcoholism.

It’s not the first time that I hear about the ‘1 for 3′ thing. It’s a myth that started to lead its own life and is also pulled out, amongst others by persons in mailorder bride and traficking schemes to justify their ‘busineses’.

]]> By: Anna http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22233 Anna Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:44:08 +0000 http://kyrgyzstan.neweurasia.net/2007/07/02/is-polygamy-an-islamic-tradition/#comment-22233 In general, the idea of polygamy questions the standard of a so-called 'normal' family which consists of one woman, one man and children. I support the concept of challenging this issue, yet I find it very unfair that only men are allowed to have many wives. The idea of 'bare branches' sounds a little Nazi-like to me. Human lives are not about reproduction these days and you cannot force people to procreate and marry everybody off. It is part of human rights that human beings have a right to marry or not and give birth or not on their free will. I will try to provide on my blog views of organizations which work on women's issues in Kyrgyzstan and their experiences with polygamy in Kyrgyzstan, as now the discussion is very much based on people's beliefs, rather than factual information. Couple of points: 1. Many Kyrgyz women especially in rural areas live in marriages blessed by mullahs and not registered in ZAGS, which means that they have legally no rights for shared property or alimony in case of their 'husband' leaving them. Therefore, 'wives' in polygamous marriages would be left without any rights in case their partner decides to move on to another woman. 2. A polygamous family would have more children and given that the family is very traditional, both or more women would not be working outside of home and, therefore, it could be a household with single male breadwinner which puts the family in poverty. 3. The economic incentives of marrying for women are overestimated, yet as the employers expect women's income to be supplementary to that of their husband, they are likely to pay women less. Then it becomes a social problem with again women not being able to manage on their own. In general, it is better to have a society with educated, informed and empowered citizens who are able to produce own income instead of depending on others. Economically, polygamy is not sustainable unless there is a functional division of responsibilities. (search for polygamy in Uganda, for example). 2. In general, the idea of polygamy questions the standard of a so-called ‘normal’ family which consists of one woman, one man and children. I support the concept of challenging this issue, yet I find it very unfair that only men are allowed to have many wives.
The idea of ‘bare branches’ sounds a little Nazi-like to me. Human lives are not about reproduction these days and you cannot force people to procreate and marry everybody off. It is part of human rights that human beings have a right to marry or not and give birth or not on their free will.
I will try to provide on my blog views of organizations which work on women’s issues in Kyrgyzstan and their experiences with polygamy in Kyrgyzstan, as now the discussion is very much based on people’s beliefs, rather than factual information.
Couple of points:
1. Many Kyrgyz women especially in rural areas live in marriages blessed by mullahs and not registered in ZAGS, which means that they have legally no rights for shared property or alimony in case of their ‘husband’ leaving them. Therefore, ‘wives’ in polygamous marriages would be left without any rights in case their partner decides to move on to another woman.

2. A polygamous family would have more children and given that the family is very traditional, both or more women would not be working outside of home and, therefore, it could be a household with single male breadwinner which puts the family in poverty.

3. The economic incentives of marrying for women are overestimated, yet as the employers expect women’s income to be supplementary to that of their husband, they are likely to pay women less. Then it becomes a social problem with again women not being able to manage on their own. In general, it is better to have a society with educated, informed and empowered citizens who are able to produce own income instead of depending on others. Economically, polygamy is not sustainable unless there is a functional division of responsibilities. (search for polygamy in Uganda, for example).

2.

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