CWX:

“We are more than our biological functionality is my reply to the question of human sexuality”

Let’s put it this way: we are able to *sublimate* it in the form of love, romantics, pleasure etc. The latter, in turn, have been completely commercialised over the last couple of decades leading to depravity and decadence and the destruction of the family as society’s core component — and, thus, the unraveling of society itself.

“You may not see transgender as anything more than “depravity”, but this is more a reflection of your world view”

Look, my friend, it’s pointles too go for a yes/no/yes/no discussion but you can not deny that the whole transgender thing is rooted in a mental crisis of the afflicted individuals — a crisis whose root causes can be hormonal deficiencies or social, but a crisis in any case.

“I hope that regardless of your personal views you can at least see that compassion toward difference, rather than condemnation, is the only way societies are going to make progress”

I do not condemn, I’m just being realistic.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/d7d1a4d2ef9feb3e54cc88cec5d78d02.htm

You may not see transgender as anything more than “depravity”, but this is more a reflection of your world view than on any transgender people, in the same way my classification of people who are strongly religious as bigots is a reflection of mine. Since neither of us is likely to change our beliefs, the ONLY thing to do is to agree to differ, rather than pointlessly come into conflict.

I hope that regardless of your personal views you can at least see that compassion toward difference, rather than condemnation, is the only way societies are going to make progress; you cannot expect others to respect your opinion and values if you do not respect theirs - this is something many fundamentalists, be they religious, political or any other sort, have not realised. In their determination to impose their views on the rest of the world, these few zealots are in danger of dragging the rest of us down with them, which would be tragic.

I do not believe “highly developed societies that have entered an irreversible decline” have ever promoted so-called “alternative” lifestyles - unless this is classed as actually daring to acknowledge their existence, presence and place in society. It is also very questionable whether Europe and Japan have entered “irrevocable decline” - who is setting the criteria? Granted, values and social structures are being challenged as never before, but change is not the same as decline and is necessary for progress, both individually and societally.

I do not feel that this debate can go any further constructively; you have stated your case eloquently and I can agree with you on certain points and vice versa, on others we will simply have to respectfully agree to differ.

Rakhmat, Pax, CXW

Guess that’s what we have to do, my friend. Honestly, reg. transsexualism of whatever it is called I can not see anything else than depravity, period.

As for homosexuality, I accept it as a given in society that has always been there and can be accommodated

I have this question though: everything in nature has a function, otherwise it does no exists; as such, sexuality, being part of the human nature, has one too, i.e. reproduction and transfering ones genes (at the end of the day, that’s what it comes to); yet homosexuality does not serves that natural function; so: can it be natural?

We als have to admit that homosexual*ism* (i.e. not homosexuality by itself but the mass hyping and promotion of homo- or bisexual lifestyles by media, pop culture, do-gooders etc.) is typical for highly developed societies that have entered an irreversible phase of decline (like Europe and Japan today).

On the point of homosexuality and transgender being entirely normal and natural, there was absolutely no irony intended - all we can do is agree to differ on this one.

Pax, CXW

I am perfectly aware that local attitudes are fundamental as well, in particular a widespread culture of masculinity that revolves around a) heavy drinking and b) treating women like shit (which of course also includes bragging with lots of prostitutes etc.).

The reasons why I lash out at ‘the West’ and the expats are two-fold:

1) the notorious, conspicious behavior of a certain portion of the expats (every reader who is from or has spent any substanial amount of time in Bishkek knows what I mean) has definitely *encouraged* local vices and the sort of attitudes outlined above, for Westerners were long, and naively so, considered as ‘role models’ by many locals;

2) the Soviet collapse was followed by an invasion of all sorts of Western/international organisations and -consults who came to tell the Kyrgyz how to live and – often with the best intentions – started to promote all sorts of values and concepts to which these societies indeed paid lip service to (if only for the $$$ and jobs attached) but that could as well come from another planet/that theses societies can basically not handle; the result is more corruption, uprooting/dislocation, confusion and, thus, more vulnerability for all sorts of vices and abuses.

“homosexuals and transgender people have always been present in every society - what is different now is that an entirely normal and natural phenomenon has at least started to enter the public sphere.”

That is always existed in most societies or civilizations is true. I’ll take your point that it is ‘an entirely normal and natural phenomenon’ with irony — as it was intended, I suppose?

You have a point - but only to a certain extent, and laying the blame with the expat community or with the West without considering other factors is similarly naive. Sure, there are certain groups that have contributed to the rise in the number of commercial sex workers, as is unfortunately the case is much of the developing world and which undoubtedly does contribute to the spread of HIV and other STDs. But to say that that is “the reality” is very one-sided.

On the issue of narcotics, on can only partially blame the West insofar as it creates a market. But you must also consider the socio-economic situation many of these people find themselves in that leads them to start using.

Similarly, I would argue strongly that the West has not “promoted” homosexuality; homosexuals and transgender people have always been present in every society - what is different now is that an entirely normal and natural phenomenon has at least started to enter the public sphere. Much of the backlash about homosexuality is caused by ignorance and fear; it may not comply with “traditional values”, which is unfortunately sometimes a term for rigid intolerance of difference, but that doesn’t mean that seeking to repress homosexuality will work - it hasn’t done yet!

The title of the Vecherka article was noticed; but the “spiritual values” referred to (at least, as I understood it) was more to do with trying to eliminate corruption than moving towards more general “moral” standards and values. I entirely agree that encouraging good “spiritual values” can only be a positive development, but not if it is at the cost of openness and education. Denying a problem, be it drug use/abuse, homosexuality or HIV infection does not make it go away - and that is also a reality.

I’m afraid that despite your claim not to wish to West-bash, your comments do make me think you are that way inclined, without looking at some of the damage that so-called “traditional” values do - keeping women ignorant of their sexuality and treating it as though it belongs to their husbands - often resulting in domestic violence or rape, the turning a blind eye to men taking mistresses or extra-marital sex, allowing the practice of bride kidnapping (which is consensual only part of the time at best) to continue and encouraging absolutist, closed and intolerant attitudes that seek to keep people ignorant.

HIV/AIDS affects us ALL and failing to address this issue will make things far, far worse. Trying to encourage spiritual values undeniably has a role to play, but humans are inherently prone to making mistakes. Thus education on prevention and risk reduction is also a vital part of tackling this issue without resorting to overt and narrow-minded moral judgements.

Peace, CXW